Atomic Bamboozle
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- Cataloging
- Transcript
ATOMIC BAMBOOZLE, a 46 minute documentary that follows anti-nuclear activists, tribal leaders, scientists and attorneys as they draw lessons from the decades-long campaign to shut down the Trojan Nuclear Power plant in Oregon and extend those lessons into a new struggle to stop small modular reactors (SMRs) from being built in the Pacific Northwest. The documentary follows activists as they expose the true costs of these small nuclear reactor designs that have been opposed by the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation (CTUIR) as well as by several other environmental groups.
As pressure mounts in the US to meet net zero carbon goals, the nuclear power industry makes its case for a nuclear “ renaissance” to solve the climate crisis, in place of the highly costly reactors shut down across many regions of the country, investors began in the early 21st century to promote small modular nuclear reactors (SMRs) as a technological solution. ATOMIC BAMBOOZLE follows anti-nuclear activist Lloyd Marbet and attorneys Greg Kafoury and Lauren Goldberg as they draw lessons from the decades-long fight to shut down the Trojan Nuclear Power plant in Oregon and expose current campaigns to revive the industry. Climate activist Cathy Sampson-Kruse (Wallulapum member of the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation) points to the buried legacy of atomic weapons production and nuclear power generation at Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Washington State and its devastating impacts on tribal communities. University of British Columbia professor M. V. Ramana, a physicist and internationally recognized scholar on nuclear power, traces the history of nuclear power generation from the 1950s to the present and takes up four main problems– costs, accidents, waste, and proliferation–and shows how the industry continues to deny or disavow these persisting problems in the much heralded generation of ”new nuclear.” Director Jan Haaken, a psychologist, brings to this history of atomic bamboozling an attentiveness to the psychological ploys of the industry.
“A powerful and provocative film.”–Willamette Week
“An uncompromising piece of activism that’s well-crafted and urgent.” –Oregon Arts Watch
"Although its immediate intention is to prevent nuclear power plant construction in Oregon and Washington, its message is universal." –CounterPunch
"Tells the story that the nuclear power lobbyists want to nullify so as to bring back costly, dangerous, unneeded nuclear power to Oregon. Those beyond Oregon should also watch this powerful film to learn the truth behind this industry and its false claims." –Ralph Nader, Center for Study of Responsive Law
Citation
Main credits
Haaken, Jan (film director)
Haaken, Jan (film producer)
Praus, Samantha (film director)
Praus, Samantha (film producer)
Other credits
Cinematography, Eric Edwards, Ben Bach, Timothy Wildgoose; editing, Jeremiah Fueres; music Eric Phillips.
Distributor subjects
EnvironmentKeywords
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If I were Zara of the world
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or something like that, the,
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the first thing I would do would be
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to shut down nuclear power.
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Except for research. I think you just have to come
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to the conclusion that sooner
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or later, these wastes are gonna come back
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and bite the human race if it
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happens to be around at that time.
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You know, how can you justify doing some
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of these things when you don't really know
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what the consequences are gonna be?
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This is this bright, good looking group of young men
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and women are the millennials and nuclear group.
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This is the brain trust.
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They're gonna make nuclear energy pool again.
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More countries are going big on the development
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of small modular reactors, touted as a next generation
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of nuclear power.
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SMRs are built to be durable and reliable.
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They are designed to shut down and cool autonomously
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and can be built mostly below ground.
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So what we're seeing nationwide is
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essentially a nuclear renaissance.
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So many of the environmental groups have now come out in
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favor of nuclear power
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because of, uh, uh,
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its environmental qualities, which is interesting.
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It's amazing to me to watch this propaganda
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happening all over again.
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There's never gonna be any failures,
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and there's never gonna be any problem.
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All you gotta do is let us build one.
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There's less of that fear of nuclear
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and more of sort of a need
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to use everything in our toolbox.
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So we often hear this claim that the climate crisis is
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so grave that we have
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to throw everything that we have at it.
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We have to throw, uh, all we can at this problem.
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It's a really big problem.
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The question of what should be done with nuclear waste
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has been one forever characterized by deceit.
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They're going to, uh, pretend to have solutions,
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and then their solution is to give it to our grandchildren.
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The existing laws
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and the restrictions on developing nuclear energy, there's,
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you know, a sense of we don't need to work on that.
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It's not a threat here,
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and I think that's probably going
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to change in the years to come.
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America is back in the nuclear energy industry, folks.
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We are back
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Safe, simple, secure, reliable energy anywhere
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that is ultra safe.
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Nuclear power has this great ability to
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not just portray itself as a modern technology,
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which is kind of odd
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because the technology is at least as old
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as the Manhattan Project is,
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and most of these reactors really are not
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that significantly different from those early reactors,
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but it has had this ability to dress itself up
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as very modern technology.
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The new scale design prominent in the Pacific Northwest is
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essentially a scale down light water reactor design.
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That's light water reactors as the most common kind
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of reactors around the world,
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especially in the United States.
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Nuclear reactors depend on water for a cooling source
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and the Columbia River with its cold, clear water has
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for many years been very attractive to nuclear development
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and the small modular nuclear reactors.
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They've been repackaged by the nuclear power industry
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to make them sound small and simple and not dangerous.
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The nuclear power industry is a powerful lobby,
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and the climate crisis is a crisis.
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And so the combination of factors has unfortunately led
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some elected leaders to get on board with,
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with nuclear power.
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And so in the case of this proposed SMR facility along the
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Columbia River in Oregon, there's been
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a ballot measure in place for many years
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that prevents the development of new nuclear energy
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and it's very much a threat right now.
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Entire families came to mark the passing
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of the last nuclear waste shipment from France.
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Weapons. No, the future.
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One thing we see around the world is that
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whenever nuclear projects are, uh, proposed,
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they're automatically springs a movement,
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which is opposing this, especially
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after the 1980s, 1970s, 1980s, where the coming of age,
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as it were, of the nuclear industry, as well
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as knowledge about the problems that this industry pos.
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And so you've seen this around the world,
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and in many cases these have been successful, not
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so much in shutting down specific projects,
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but in shutting down plans for much larger expansions.
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So if you look at the United States, for example,
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the mid 1970s, they were expecting
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that there would be like a thousand nuclear reactors built
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by the turn of the century,
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by the year 2000 in actual factors, more like a hundred.
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The Trojan nuclear power plant is located northwest
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of Portland about, you know, 40 miles downstream.
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The legacy of activism
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around the Trojan nuclear power plant is critical for people
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to learn from today,
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because shockingly here in the Pacific Northwest,
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we now have proposals for new nuclear energy facilities.
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We can take lessons from Trojan
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and bring it into the fight to stop the development
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of small modular nuclear reactors or SMRs.
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August 8th, 1970 7, 82 protestors
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arrested at Trojan Plant.
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That was a seminal event.
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Lawyers for the, uh, activists managed
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to have a mass trial.
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And, uh, in return for not having 82
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separate jury trials in, uh, little Columbia County, uh,
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the DA agreed that they could have one trial
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and they could put on evidence for choice of evils, saying
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that nuclear power was so dangerous that
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what they were doing was justified.
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In order to try and fight nuclear power,
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The men were taken by bus to Portland.
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The women put aboard another bus and brought here to St.
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Helens. They arrived at the jail just
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as they had at the Trojan's site singing
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and chanting from behind bars at the Columbia County Jail.
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Margot Fager described the arrest
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We were being asked to leave, that anyone
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who did not leave the the PGE grounds, including the um,
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recreational area, this on the road,
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whatever would be arrested,
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The people united would never be defeated.
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The people united would never be defeated.
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In the mid 1980s, Lloyd told me that he wanted
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to go after Trojan.
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And my first thought was, you are nuts.
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This plant is operating, it's making money.
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It has massive, uh, uh, resources,
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it has massive political support.
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It's crazy.
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There's a great quote, um,
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from the Oregon Department of Energy.
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They were the regulators.
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And they said from the outset, the plant was plagued
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by design flaws
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and other problems that led to temporary closures
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and expensive repairs.
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And throughout the operating history of Trojan,
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that's exactly what occurred.
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They discovered that the control room building was not
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earthquake resistant.
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That the, that the walls of the building had been designed
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by an engineer who had never
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designed a wall in his, in his life.
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Up until that point, you know,
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my first involvement in trying
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to do something about this threat to our community was
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to spend time petitioning on the streets of Portland.
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But I also was going to public hearings.
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All we're asking is, is that you hold a proceeding
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to examine the evidence
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and that that proceeding have the power
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to give the individuals who participate an opportunity
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to test and weigh that evidence.
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Dan Meek and Lloyd Marett saying, we told you so.
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The amount that PGE may have
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to spend on replacement steam generators, uh,
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could easily be greater than the original
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cost of building the plants.
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They're saying, let's put into a deferred account
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and then charge to rate payers later, even a larger amount
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of money because it's costing more to releve
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and to, uh, plug the tubes of Trojan than they expected.
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You needed to show
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before you did civil disobedience,
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that you had tried all other alternatives.
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First. By the time we got to 1992,
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all those efforts had failed,
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and that's what led to going to the gates of Trojan.
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As the plant general manager's representative,
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I am ordering you to leave Portland General Electric
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property immediately, or you'll be subject
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to arrest for trespassing.
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Do you understand? I understand. Do you choose to leave?
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I do not. I've authorized by the plant general manager
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to have you arrested for trespassing
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on Portland General Electric
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Property, closing down closed cro,
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just doing my job as a nurse.
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You know, I check the Oregon Nurse Practice Act says,
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protect the public health of the community.
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Um, anything, anything you wanna say before they take you,
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Um, He'll be
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back right on.
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When the tower came down, that was, uh,
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a celebratory moment
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because, uh, we were gonna
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back them over a cliff no matter how long it took.
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And they recognize that
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All nuclear reactors, when the nuclear industry started,
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used to be small and they became larger
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and larger over a period of time because nuclear power,
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because of this complicated way
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by which you are producing the energy
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and the electricity is an expensive process.
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And the only way the nuclear industry could figure out how
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to reduce costs was to go to larger reactors.
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SMR developers basically promised
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that they have learned the lessons from earlier rounds
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of nuclear construction building and have solved everything.
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There are sort of four sets of problems
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that people talk about when they think,
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think about nuclear power.
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Building a nuclear reactor is going to be expensive.
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The whole promise of small modular reactors,
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when you come down to smaller sizes,
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the cost automatically goes up.
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The economies of scale that you gain by going
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to larger sizes are lost when you
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come back to smaller sizes.
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Smaller reactors tend to be more expensive per unit of
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electricity capacity or energy generated,
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and that means that you're going
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to lose out on the economic challenge
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that is confronting nuclear power.
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There is a company called Lazard, uh,
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which is a Wall Street company that comes up with estimates
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of costs of gen electricity generated
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from different kinds of sources.
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Uh, the last report from Lazard that came out in 2021
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estimated a new nuclear power plant would produce
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electricity at roughly $160 per megawatt hour.
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In comparison, uh, the cost for solar
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and wind are of the order of 30 to $40 per megawatt hour.
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That's a huge gap.
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And if you go to small model reactors,
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that gap will only become larger, right?
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And if large nuclear plants stem cells are not competitive,
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there's no way that small modular reactors are going
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to be economically competitive.
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Yeah. So what we've done, uh, is we have a reactor vessel,
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which is inside a containment vessel,
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but the secret is that it's all built in a factory,
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and then separately you're doing your
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civil construction on site.
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So it's a parallel construction approach
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that greatly reduces schedule and cost.
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In the case of small modular reactors, these new reactors
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that they're talking about, none
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of these designs are actually set in stone
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yet they're all still evolving.
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So if you don't know exactly what your design is going
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to be, how do you build a factory
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to manufacture the parts for that?
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They gathered before dawn at Three Mile Island marking the
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moment when one of two reactors went into partial meltdown,
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the worst nuclear accident in US history, halting the growth
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of nuclear power in America to this day,
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and sparking health concerns that linger 40 years later,
264
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the cleanup will take years
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and cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
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It was just panic, it was fear.
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It was all these emotions wrapped up into one
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Thousands of pregnant women and families
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with toddlers like Christine Lehman's evacuated.
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Two weeks later, they got an all clear from regulators
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and the utility company.
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The second problem is
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that sometimes these can have accidents like
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what happened in Cherno or in Fukushima, uh,
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or in parts of the United States as well.
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Three Mile Island, for example.
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And that can lead to the spreading
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of radioactive contamination over space.
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And that lasts for a very long time.
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They're always going to be living with this constant risk
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that someday what happened in Fukushima could happen to them
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as well, in which case they will all have
283
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to leave their houses and never probably come
284
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back to those houses.
285
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So there are all these areas which are often far away from
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the site of the people, and the decisions for these things
287
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are not made necessarily by the people
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who are going to pay these costs.
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They're going to be made in state capitals
290
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and in national capitals,
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which are far away from these places.
292
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And the people who are investing in these
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are also living far away.
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They live in, you know, New York and other banking areas.
295
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And so this is, they're not going to be the people
296
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who are gonna be affected by this,
297
00:15:48.225 --> 00:15:51.365
but it's common people who are living near any
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of these facilities that are going to pay the price
299
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Core 7 6 5 2 8.
300
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This is a large scale gas fusion enrichment plant,
301
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and we're here as IEA inspectors.
302
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We are here to safeguard all the nuclear material.
303
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The IEA inspectors play a crucial role
304
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because we directly contribute to verification activities.
305
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And through this we can provide credible assurances
306
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that states are honoring their international obligations
307
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to use nuclear material for only peaceful purposes.
308
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The third problem is that linkage between nuclear power
309
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and the capacity to make nuclear weapons materials.
310
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All nuclear reactors produce plutonium.
311
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Many of these use interest uranium the same technology
312
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that can interest uranium.
313
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So-called centrifuges can also make uranium
314
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that's interest enough to be used in weapons.
315
00:17:19.735 --> 00:17:22.795
And the last is that all nuclear power plants produce
316
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radioactive waste that are hazardous to human health, uh,
317
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and the environment for tens of thousands of years,
318
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maybe hundreds of thousands of years even without accident.
319
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So that's a necessary, uh, problem
320
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that you'll have to deal with.
321
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And so far there is no demonstrated way of, uh,
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dealing with these over the periods of time
323
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that would be required to have to ensure safe,
324
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uh, management of these.
325
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And all of these are going to be present in the case
326
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of small modular reactors as well.
327
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If you look at trying to solve all of them,
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it's almost impossible to find a design
329
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that would optimize all of them.
330
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This is fundamentally the coolest thing
331
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that we could be doing with our lives.
332
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It's potentially world changing.
333
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The nuclear industry is extremely strong.
334
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It has a very good PR machinery that is very convincing
335
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to a lot of people who see the climate crisis
336
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as being very threatening and not a lot of hope.
337
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We must one
338
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and strong for the earth
339
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and future generations.
340
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Now's our last chance to take a stand.
341
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Come on, we can come on, we can.
342
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The Columbia River is one
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of the most important estuaries on planet earth.
344
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Every single salmon that goes up
345
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and down the Columbia River spends time in the estuary.
346
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It's the lifeblood of the Pacific Northwest.
347
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What's critical to remember is
348
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that the nuclear power industry in the United States has yet
349
00:19:30.145 --> 00:19:33.025
to solve the ultimate puzzle, which is what to do
350
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with nuclear waste.
351
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So for the proposed SMR near the Columbia River,
352
00:19:38.135 --> 00:19:41.105
what we're looking at right now is taking an approach
353
00:19:41.105 --> 00:19:44.545
similar to the toxic waste on site at the Trojan Power
354
00:19:44.545 --> 00:19:47.745
plant, which is to leave the waste in
355
00:19:47.865 --> 00:19:50.585
what are called dry casks near the Columbia River,
356
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potentially into perpetuity.
357
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The reality is that when you look at the timelines
358
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associated with nuclear waste, the risk
359
00:19:59.005 --> 00:20:02.105
of a catastrophic earthquake is very real in that area.
360
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The risk of flooding, in fact, is significant.
361
00:20:08.445 --> 00:20:12.065
The environmental movement needs to be focused on a pathway
362
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through renewables, through energy efficiency,
363
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through conservation that does not require
364
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more salmon and steelhead extinctions on the Columbia River.
365
00:20:22.165 --> 00:20:24.865
And that does not require leaving our children
366
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and our children's children
367
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and beyond, with generations of radioactive
368
00:20:30.405 --> 00:20:32.865
and toxic waste along the Columbia shores,
369
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The, They wanted to do something
370
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that was very unusual in decommissioning
371
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a nuclear power plant.
372
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They wanted to immediately begin removing components in the
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nuclear power plant and disposing of them permanently.
374
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And they proposed to do
375
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what was called large component removal.
376
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They proposed to take the steam generators out
377
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of the nuclear plant, put 'em on a barge,
378
00:21:07.455 --> 00:21:10.285
barge 'em up the Columbia River to Hanford, fill 'em
379
00:21:10.285 --> 00:21:11.765
with concrete and throw 'em in the ground.
380
00:21:12.065 --> 00:21:15.045
That's what they did. They need some place
381
00:21:15.265 --> 00:21:18.165
to eventually dispose of this material.
382
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And of course, most of it goes into the ground.
383
00:21:39.145 --> 00:21:43.125
We will always be here. We need to keep that in our heart.
384
00:21:43.585 --> 00:21:46.685
We need to know that every time we look into the eyes
385
00:21:46.705 --> 00:21:50.525
of a child, it is our responsibility to protect them
386
00:21:51.025 --> 00:21:52.925
and make this world better for them.
387
00:21:53.385 --> 00:21:58.285
Aye? Well, you have to understand
388
00:21:59.915 --> 00:22:04.605
that as far as nuclear power goes, uh, the Hanford site,
389
00:22:04.635 --> 00:22:07.925
even with the cleanup, is the stake in the ground
390
00:22:08.105 --> 00:22:09.645
for the nuclear power industry
391
00:22:09.835 --> 00:22:11.605
because we know it's gonna be there
392
00:22:11.665 --> 00:22:13.365
for a hundred thousand years.
393
00:22:13.945 --> 00:22:18.485
So it it's kind of a win-win situation for the powers
394
00:22:18.485 --> 00:22:22.085
that be to develop more, to try to, you know,
395
00:22:22.945 --> 00:22:24.805
revive the industry, if you will.
396
00:22:25.835 --> 00:22:27.965
Harford is a particularly historical site
397
00:22:27.965 --> 00:22:28.965
because it was the place
398
00:22:28.965 --> 00:22:30.845
where the first nuclear reactors were built
399
00:22:31.265 --> 00:22:33.885
and they were built to produce plutonium
400
00:22:34.075 --> 00:22:37.325
that was used in the weapon that was dropped over Nagasaki.
401
00:22:37.425 --> 00:22:39.285
And then, uh, subsequently hundreds
402
00:22:39.285 --> 00:22:40.565
and hundreds of other nuclear weapons.
403
00:22:46.115 --> 00:22:47.335
In 1959,
404
00:22:48.295 --> 00:22:50.695
construction was started on a dual purpose reactor
405
00:22:51.115 --> 00:22:52.775
to make plutonium for defense
406
00:22:53.355 --> 00:22:55.815
and steam for the generation of electricity.
407
00:22:56.475 --> 00:22:58.975
Oh 4 67, sorry. On the cover of the removal
408
00:22:58.995 --> 00:23:02.535
Of that, with the reactor building completed in 1963,
409
00:23:02.955 --> 00:23:06.135
the late president John F. Kennedy arrived at Hanford
410
00:23:06.515 --> 00:23:09.175
to break ground for the construction of the power plant.
411
00:23:10.235 --> 00:23:13.535
And I think it's very appropriate that we come here where
412
00:23:13.595 --> 00:23:16.055
so much has been done to build the military strength
413
00:23:16.055 --> 00:23:19.455
of the United States, and to find a chance to strike a blow
414
00:23:19.515 --> 00:23:22.335
for peace and to find a chance to strike a blow
415
00:23:22.335 --> 00:23:24.295
for a better life for our fellow citizens.
416
00:23:24.485 --> 00:23:26.415
This is a great national asset here.
417
00:23:26.895 --> 00:23:28.655
I can assure you it will be maintained.
418
00:23:29.155 --> 00:23:30.895
And from the work we begin today,
419
00:23:31.775 --> 00:23:35.215
I hope the light will spread out not merely to those
420
00:23:35.235 --> 00:23:36.735
who are served by electricity,
421
00:23:37.195 --> 00:23:39.055
but to all the world to realize
422
00:23:39.565 --> 00:23:42.455
that here in the United States, we are moving ahead
423
00:23:42.955 --> 00:23:44.815
and providing security for our people
424
00:23:45.665 --> 00:23:48.285
and also a hope for a better life in this most
425
00:23:48.285 --> 00:23:49.405
beautiful country of ours.
426
00:23:49.655 --> 00:23:50.655
Thank you.
427
00:24:25.185 --> 00:24:29.125
We had already seen the use of nuclear energy to
428
00:24:29.635 --> 00:24:31.285
explode a tremendous weapon.
429
00:24:31.785 --> 00:24:33.885
You know, we saw that in Japan and, and,
430
00:24:33.905 --> 00:24:35.645
and Hiroshima Nagasaki.
431
00:24:35.825 --> 00:24:40.285
So that gave birth eventually, um, with a great deal
432
00:24:40.305 --> 00:24:45.125
of manipulation to the use of nuclear energy to,
433
00:24:45.665 --> 00:24:49.605
you know, basically boil water, to turn turbines to,
434
00:24:49.745 --> 00:24:51.085
you know, create electricity,
435
00:24:54.355 --> 00:24:57.605
Fantasy land, the happiest kingdom of them all
436
00:25:00.495 --> 00:25:01.645
presenting this week.
437
00:25:06.465 --> 00:25:07.965
The Adam is our future.
438
00:25:09.465 --> 00:25:12.245
It is the subject everyone wants to understand,
439
00:25:12.945 --> 00:25:14.885
and here to tell you the story of our friend.
440
00:25:14.885 --> 00:25:17.965
The Adam is the author of our book, Dr. Hymes Harbor.
441
00:25:20.545 --> 00:25:22.765
As we developed our story of the atom,
442
00:25:23.345 --> 00:25:24.845
we made an amazing discovery.
443
00:25:25.825 --> 00:25:27.005
We had a science story,
444
00:25:27.305 --> 00:25:28.725
but suddenly we realized
445
00:25:29.315 --> 00:25:31.405
that it was almost like a fairytale.
446
00:25:32.145 --> 00:25:36.085
The world was steeply shocked by the first atomic lotion.
447
00:25:37.435 --> 00:25:39.655
We all wondered if atomic energy
448
00:25:40.435 --> 00:25:42.215
had better remained a secret forever.
449
00:25:43.335 --> 00:25:44.635
We are like the fishermen.
450
00:25:45.385 --> 00:25:48.315
When he first beheld the frightful form of the genie,
451
00:25:48.815 --> 00:25:52.315
he too wished that he had never found the vessel, oh,
452
00:25:52.315 --> 00:25:55.475
That presently thou will have to die.
453
00:25:55.855 --> 00:25:57.515
But our fable had a happy ending.
454
00:26:02.545 --> 00:26:06.165
The fishermen had his means of making a friend of his enemy,
455
00:26:07.585 --> 00:26:09.805
and fortunately, science has its way
456
00:26:09.805 --> 00:26:11.005
of doing the same thing.
457
00:26:12.505 --> 00:26:15.005
And atomic blast is more than a threat.
458
00:26:16.105 --> 00:26:19.445
It is also a regretful waste of heat and radiation.
459
00:26:20.625 --> 00:26:22.125
To make this energy useful,
460
00:26:22.825 --> 00:26:24.725
the explosion must be slowed down.
461
00:26:55.755 --> 00:26:58.335
The desert of southeastern Washington is home
462
00:26:58.335 --> 00:27:00.895
to the most contaminated area in the United States.
463
00:27:01.405 --> 00:27:04.095
Site workers are now engaged in the world's largest
464
00:27:04.165 --> 00:27:05.815
environmental cleanup project.
465
00:27:07.545 --> 00:27:10.575
Leaks from the tanks, along with hundreds of billions
466
00:27:10.575 --> 00:27:12.055
of gallons of radioactive
467
00:27:12.195 --> 00:27:13.655
and hazardous liquid waste
468
00:27:13.885 --> 00:27:17.335
that was dumped into the soil at Hanford have contaminated
469
00:27:17.425 --> 00:27:21.695
about 80 square miles of groundwater beneath the site, some
470
00:27:21.695 --> 00:27:24.455
of the contamination is entering the Columbia River.
471
00:27:24.955 --> 00:27:27.575
The remaining cleanup at Hanford will take decades
472
00:27:28.035 --> 00:27:30.015
and cost tens of billions of dollars,
473
00:27:30.795 --> 00:27:33.975
but it's the price that must be paid to protect current
474
00:27:34.075 --> 00:27:36.655
and future generations from hanford's waste.
475
00:27:46.175 --> 00:27:49.515
The Hanford nuclear site, which was targeted
476
00:27:49.935 --> 00:27:53.515
for the development of a permanent long-term repository
477
00:27:53.655 --> 00:27:57.275
for nuclear waste, is off the drawing table.
478
00:27:57.535 --> 00:28:00.195
And the mission at Hanford is cleanup
479
00:28:00.535 --> 00:28:04.995
and so incredible activism from tribal nations
480
00:28:05.255 --> 00:28:08.275
as well as activists across the Pacific Northwest
481
00:28:09.265 --> 00:28:10.355
shut down efforts
482
00:28:10.535 --> 00:28:14.075
to turn Hanford into a national nuclear waste repository.
483
00:28:16.295 --> 00:28:18.835
The Confederated tribes of Umatilla Indian reservation,
484
00:28:19.165 --> 00:28:21.675
which has seeded lands in the, in the area,
485
00:28:22.375 --> 00:28:24.475
has already come out to the US Department
486
00:28:24.475 --> 00:28:27.355
of Energy expressing its opposition
487
00:28:27.495 --> 00:28:30.915
to SMR sighting near Hanford that the, the mission
488
00:28:30.915 --> 00:28:33.435
of the US government must be laser focused
489
00:28:33.895 --> 00:28:35.035
on Hanford cleanup.
490
00:28:37.345 --> 00:28:40.995
Russell Jim was a leader from the Yakima Nation,
491
00:28:41.295 --> 00:28:45.395
who was the first person to put the issue of nuclear waste
492
00:28:45.615 --> 00:28:47.475
and, uh, an opposition
493
00:28:47.475 --> 00:28:50.035
to it from the First Nations into Washington,
494
00:28:50.815 --> 00:28:55.635
and eventually led the, uh, proposal to try
495
00:28:55.635 --> 00:28:59.075
and bury radio to waste in Hanford to be canceled.
496
00:29:00.415 --> 00:29:02.635
The Hanford area was our wintering ground.
497
00:29:03.935 --> 00:29:06.795
The winters were milder here, and so therefore we moved here
498
00:29:06.855 --> 00:29:08.635
and dispersed to all other parts
499
00:29:08.635 --> 00:29:10.675
of the country when the spring came.
500
00:29:11.215 --> 00:29:14.235
So consequently in the Treaty of 1855, um,
501
00:29:15.135 --> 00:29:16.875
we included such language
502
00:29:16.895 --> 00:29:20.195
and it was accepted by the United States of America,
503
00:29:20.335 --> 00:29:23.075
and we would forever have the right
504
00:29:23.075 --> 00:29:26.795
to utilize the natural foods and medicines and to hunt
505
00:29:26.795 --> 00:29:29.835
and fish and all used in custom places with the coming
506
00:29:29.855 --> 00:29:32.475
of the Manhattan Project, uh, put it in writing
507
00:29:32.545 --> 00:29:36.955
that the area had the abundant cold water, clean water
508
00:29:37.025 --> 00:29:38.875
that they needed to cool their reactors.
509
00:29:39.815 --> 00:29:43.685
The area was a, was an isolated wasteland,
510
00:29:44.665 --> 00:29:46.125
and the people were expendable.
511
00:29:46.705 --> 00:29:48.445
And, uh, everyone has moved out,
512
00:29:48.445 --> 00:29:50.205
including the Akma nation people.
513
00:29:54.355 --> 00:29:57.205
True progress at Hanford looks like a Columbia
514
00:29:57.535 --> 00:30:01.285
where people can catch locally caught fish
515
00:30:01.305 --> 00:30:03.525
and eat it without fear of getting sick.
516
00:30:03.865 --> 00:30:05.085
People can, you know,
517
00:30:05.085 --> 00:30:08.205
downstream from Hanford drink Columbia River Water,
518
00:30:08.675 --> 00:30:10.725
swim in the river, recreate.
519
00:30:11.225 --> 00:30:14.485
It really is this question of, you know, we've been able
520
00:30:14.485 --> 00:30:17.285
to keep the pollution at bay to a point
521
00:30:17.285 --> 00:30:19.725
where the Columbia remains the lifeblood
522
00:30:19.725 --> 00:30:21.045
of the Pacific Northwest.
523
00:30:21.745 --> 00:30:25.125
But unless we see through that cleanup,
524
00:30:25.255 --> 00:30:26.485
there are no guarantees
525
00:30:26.485 --> 00:30:28.605
that the Columbia will remain a river
526
00:30:29.075 --> 00:30:30.965
that is really for everyone.
527
00:30:34.085 --> 00:30:36.565
Hanford Science Forum is an educational feature
528
00:30:36.865 --> 00:30:38.245
of the General Electric Company
529
00:30:38.665 --> 00:30:41.685
and the United States Atomic Energy Commission at Hanford.
530
00:30:41.945 --> 00:30:46.485
The companies that were involved in, uh, Hanford, uh,
531
00:30:46.725 --> 00:30:48.965
construction, all went on to also being part
532
00:30:48.965 --> 00:30:50.485
of the nuclear industry more largely.
533
00:30:50.705 --> 00:30:54.165
We do have clams present in the Columbia River, uh, clams.
534
00:30:54.305 --> 00:30:58.245
Uh, were once used in the Columbia by, uh, Indians.
535
00:30:58.625 --> 00:31:02.485
We have two different kinds of fish, a small, uh, Bullhead,
536
00:31:02.485 --> 00:31:05.925
which, uh, lays in weight at the bottom of the river, uh,
537
00:31:05.945 --> 00:31:08.765
to, uh, capture other fish, which may swim by,
538
00:31:08.945 --> 00:31:11.365
and of course, a couple of very small specimens
539
00:31:11.365 --> 00:31:14.685
of the sturgeon, which is the largest fish in the Columbia.
540
00:31:14.945 --> 00:31:16.685
The work in the Columbia River is this.
541
00:31:16.825 --> 00:31:18.925
The results are this, uh, we do find
542
00:31:18.925 --> 00:31:22.285
that these fish pick up, uh, very small amounts of, uh,
543
00:31:22.285 --> 00:31:23.725
radioactive materials.
544
00:31:23.825 --> 00:31:26.845
The amount which they pick up is, uh, not at all hazardous.
545
00:31:26.845 --> 00:31:29.125
So we know that the, from this angle, the, uh, operation
546
00:31:29.125 --> 00:31:31.205
of the plant is, uh, quite safe.
547
00:31:31.515 --> 00:31:34.245
Similar programs are also carried on, uh,
548
00:31:34.265 --> 00:31:36.405
by other components, uh, for the atmosphere,
549
00:31:36.585 --> 00:31:38.445
for the soil, for the drinking water.
550
00:31:38.755 --> 00:31:41.725
This are, are part of the safety program, which, uh, uh,
551
00:31:41.875 --> 00:31:43.325
ensures that the environments
552
00:31:43.325 --> 00:31:46.605
of the Hanford works are maintained in a very safe manner.
553
00:31:46.695 --> 00:31:47.725
Thank you very much, Dr.
554
00:31:47.915 --> 00:31:51.605
Mass. Public deception continued on until 1986.
555
00:31:51.675 --> 00:31:55.885
That don't worry, everything's fine if we continue
556
00:31:55.905 --> 00:31:59.365
to eat the fish from the Columbia, especially
557
00:31:59.365 --> 00:32:01.605
around the Hanford area as we have in the past.
558
00:32:02.215 --> 00:32:04.965
Batel says they have scientific studies on the river
559
00:32:05.665 --> 00:32:07.005
and they say everything's fine.
560
00:32:09.105 --> 00:32:12.965
If so, then how come EPA came out with a study that says,
561
00:32:13.745 --> 00:32:16.045
uh, there is one chance in 50, uh,
562
00:32:16.045 --> 00:32:20.245
of getting cancer from very contaminated salmon and fish?
563
00:32:47.735 --> 00:32:51.835
So we talk about the coal, we talk about the oil.
564
00:32:53.255 --> 00:32:55.835
We can't forget about the nuclear,
565
00:32:57.535 --> 00:32:59.755
the small modular nuclear reactors
566
00:32:59.755 --> 00:33:02.395
that are being developed right across the river
567
00:33:02.775 --> 00:33:04.155
and backed by some of the biggest
568
00:33:04.155 --> 00:33:05.395
billionaires in the country.
569
00:33:06.455 --> 00:33:09.075
The next miracle, these are ORs so far,
570
00:33:09.215 --> 00:33:10.915
mm-hmm is nuclear energy.
571
00:33:11.095 --> 00:33:15.155
The Gen four, whoever's gen four gets built will be a no
572
00:33:15.365 --> 00:33:17.035
human required, you know,
573
00:33:17.155 --> 00:33:19.315
nose zirconium turning into hydrogen
574
00:33:19.335 --> 00:33:21.915
to explode type design if everything goes perfectly.
575
00:33:22.395 --> 00:33:23.755
Absolutely. How often does everything go
576
00:33:23.755 --> 00:33:25.075
perfectly in nuclear?
577
00:33:25.575 --> 00:33:29.875
Uh, well, you know, if you ignore No, no, come on.
578
00:33:29.975 --> 00:33:32.675
If you ignore 1979 and 1986
579
00:33:33.295 --> 00:33:36.515
and 2011, come on, we've had a good century.
580
00:33:37.335 --> 00:33:40.235
Uh, no, seriously, I mean, in terms
581
00:33:40.235 --> 00:33:42.195
of raw figures, you know,
582
00:33:48.215 --> 00:33:50.235
Now if you look at Bill Gates wealth,
583
00:33:50.575 --> 00:33:53.275
he can definitely fund that whole thing by himself, right?
584
00:33:53.455 --> 00:33:56.235
But he doesn't do that. He gives maybe a few million
585
00:33:56.235 --> 00:33:58.995
dollars, maybe tens of millions of dollars into that.
586
00:33:59.575 --> 00:34:02.315
And then he goes to Washington, he goes to Beijing
587
00:34:02.695 --> 00:34:05.315
and tries to get public money for that, right?
588
00:34:05.735 --> 00:34:08.315
That's kind of the proof of why, you know,
589
00:34:08.335 --> 00:34:10.355
the even these billionaires
590
00:34:10.355 --> 00:34:12.155
and these investors who think
591
00:34:12.155 --> 00:34:14.635
that nuclear power has a promising future, don't want
592
00:34:14.635 --> 00:34:16.115
to put their own money in it, right?
593
00:34:16.465 --> 00:34:18.315
What does that tell you? And that, I think,
594
00:34:18.315 --> 00:34:19.955
tells you something about how they operate.
595
00:34:20.775 --> 00:34:22.435
You have these little, uh, uh, uh,
596
00:34:22.435 --> 00:34:25.235
public utility districts throughout Washington and,
597
00:34:25.295 --> 00:34:27.555
and they think, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna catch the wave.
598
00:34:27.575 --> 00:34:28.635
You know, we're gonna catch the future.
599
00:34:28.965 --> 00:34:32.275
We're gonna go nuclear. And so they gave everything, uh,
600
00:34:32.275 --> 00:34:34.235
that the, to the industry that the industry wanted.
601
00:34:34.575 --> 00:34:37.715
And one of the things was cost plus contracts, so
602
00:34:37.715 --> 00:34:40.435
that no matter how many mistakes the construction companies
603
00:34:40.435 --> 00:34:43.115
made, they'd make more money each time they screwed up.
604
00:34:43.425 --> 00:34:45.835
It's not just Hanford, it's all of the Department
605
00:34:45.835 --> 00:34:49.035
of Energy contracts have that same incentive in them.
606
00:34:49.295 --> 00:34:51.715
Um, the whip, the the Waste Isolation Project,
607
00:34:51.965 --> 00:34:53.955
which has a plutonium leak also,
608
00:34:53.955 --> 00:34:55.755
which had a plutonium explosion.
609
00:34:56.345 --> 00:34:58.075
Also in the, in the months
610
00:34:58.135 --> 00:35:01.395
before that, all the executives walked away with bonuses,
611
00:35:01.585 --> 00:35:04.115
despite the fact that there were numerous safety problems.
612
00:35:04.855 --> 00:35:07.915
The Bill Gates, uh, company TerraPower, they're kind
613
00:35:07.915 --> 00:35:09.395
of moved to a different design now.
614
00:35:09.775 --> 00:35:14.195
And this design is essentially an old design, a sodium cold,
615
00:35:14.225 --> 00:35:15.315
fast reactor design,
616
00:35:15.565 --> 00:35:17.555
which they have modernized in some fashion.
617
00:35:17.815 --> 00:35:19.395
Uh, and we don't know enough about it.
618
00:35:19.415 --> 00:35:22.115
But of course, you are now gonna make a telephone the same
619
00:35:22.115 --> 00:35:23.835
way you made it 50 years ago.
620
00:35:23.835 --> 00:35:25.955
But that doesn't change some of the fundamental features
621
00:35:26.015 --> 00:35:27.755
of this particular nuclear reactor design.
622
00:35:28.595 --> 00:35:30.635
Molten salt reactors for the production
623
00:35:30.635 --> 00:35:33.995
of electrical power were studied at Oak Ridge National
624
00:35:33.995 --> 00:35:37.205
Laboratory from 1957 to 1960.
625
00:35:37.785 --> 00:35:40.245
Design studies and technological developments
626
00:35:40.845 --> 00:35:43.725
strongly indicated that molten salt breeder reactors
627
00:35:43.955 --> 00:35:46.845
operating on a thorium cycle could be developed
628
00:35:46.865 --> 00:35:48.725
to produce low cost electricity
629
00:35:48.905 --> 00:35:50.885
and conserve our uranium resources.
630
00:35:51.665 --> 00:35:55.045
The molten salt reactor experiment went critical on
631
00:35:55.045 --> 00:35:56.965
June 1st, 1965.
632
00:35:59.065 --> 00:36:02.605
As a result of this success, ORNL is proposing
633
00:36:02.605 --> 00:36:04.565
to develop a thermal breeder reactor.
634
00:36:05.155 --> 00:36:08.005
Thermal breeders have many practical construction
635
00:36:08.005 --> 00:36:09.285
and operating advantages,
636
00:36:09.665 --> 00:36:11.605
and the molten salt reactor appears
637
00:36:11.605 --> 00:36:14.005
to be a very attractive thermal breeder.
638
00:36:16.805 --> 00:36:19.645
Molten salt thermal breeders should have a low inventory
639
00:36:19.705 --> 00:36:22.765
of fial material, which means that the amount
640
00:36:22.765 --> 00:36:25.325
of uranium needed to fuel the reactor is low
641
00:36:28.225 --> 00:36:29.325
in the design of a two.
642
00:36:34.465 --> 00:36:36.365
One should remember that waste is not
643
00:36:36.365 --> 00:36:37.605
just one kind of thing.
644
00:36:37.825 --> 00:36:42.085
We categorize the waste into multiple streams depending on
645
00:36:42.085 --> 00:36:44.525
the kind of radioactivity, how long it is going
646
00:36:44.525 --> 00:36:45.845
to be radioactive,
647
00:36:46.345 --> 00:36:48.605
and are there certain specific materials
648
00:36:48.605 --> 00:36:50.245
that are particularly hard to deal with.
649
00:36:50.305 --> 00:36:53.245
And so on some of these reactor designs,
650
00:36:53.435 --> 00:36:55.765
they involve the use of materials
651
00:36:55.765 --> 00:36:57.125
that are very difficult to deal with.
652
00:36:57.125 --> 00:36:58.765
For example, molten sodium.
653
00:36:59.035 --> 00:37:02.245
This is for example, the design that Bill Gates company,
654
00:37:02.245 --> 00:37:04.205
Terra Powers promoting natrium.
655
00:37:05.385 --> 00:37:10.085
Or they might use things like molten salts, which are,
656
00:37:10.085 --> 00:37:11.405
again, difficult to deal with
657
00:37:11.675 --> 00:37:13.925
because of their chemical properties,
658
00:37:13.985 --> 00:37:16.125
not just the radioactive, uh, aspect of it.
659
00:37:43.075 --> 00:37:45.285
Once it is, it's time to dispose
660
00:37:45.285 --> 00:37:49.005
of it in the US there is still no national geologic
661
00:37:49.325 --> 00:37:50.645
repository for nuclear waste.
662
00:37:51.265 --> 00:37:55.525
And so it is then hundreds of thousands of years that
663
00:37:55.835 --> 00:37:59.925
that waste, this radioactive toxic waste will exist near the
664
00:38:00.045 --> 00:38:03.245
Columbia River, you know, relatively close to communities
665
00:38:03.625 --> 00:38:06.125
and threaten not only people's health,
666
00:38:06.425 --> 00:38:08.285
but also the Columbia River.
667
00:38:12.225 --> 00:38:16.925
You had a slide that showed, I think, 17,600 acres
668
00:38:17.785 --> 00:38:21.285
for a 60 megawatt wind farm
669
00:38:22.095 --> 00:38:25.445
while talking about just 34 acres
670
00:38:25.745 --> 00:38:28.205
for 60 megawatt per module.
671
00:38:29.815 --> 00:38:33.565
Small nuclear reactor, right? Why would we do wind?
672
00:38:35.825 --> 00:38:39.845
Hi, can renewables
673
00:38:39.845 --> 00:38:40.885
and nuclear be friends?
674
00:38:43.025 --> 00:38:44.405
Thanks. Thanks for your question. Yeah.
675
00:38:44.545 --> 00:38:47.605
The nuclear industry pitches small modular reactors
676
00:38:47.705 --> 00:38:50.725
and nuclear power more generally as a compliment
677
00:38:50.745 --> 00:38:51.845
to renewables.
678
00:38:52.305 --> 00:38:54.485
Uh, they don't dismiss renewables.
679
00:38:54.485 --> 00:38:57.965
They say we need renewables, but we also need nuclear power.
680
00:38:59.385 --> 00:39:01.685
The stored heat allows the natrium system
681
00:39:01.745 --> 00:39:03.205
to be uniquely flexible.
682
00:39:03.785 --> 00:39:06.445
It can rapidly ramp electricity production up
683
00:39:06.465 --> 00:39:08.125
or down based on demand
684
00:39:08.385 --> 00:39:12.125
or the availability of renewable sources. The natrium
685
00:39:12.205 --> 00:39:14.925
Technology, there are two problems with that.
686
00:39:15.425 --> 00:39:17.085
The first, as I mentioned, is
687
00:39:17.085 --> 00:39:19.285
that nuclear power is already very expensive.
688
00:39:19.585 --> 00:39:21.565
And when the wind is blowing hard
689
00:39:21.585 --> 00:39:24.605
or when the sun is shining, you would lower the output,
690
00:39:24.605 --> 00:39:26.245
maybe bring it all the way down to zero,
691
00:39:26.705 --> 00:39:30.405
and then when the power dies down from the renewable
692
00:39:30.485 --> 00:39:33.245
sources, you would ramp up the nuclear power plant.
693
00:39:34.105 --> 00:39:37.325
Now, this is technically challenging for any nuclear plant
694
00:39:37.435 --> 00:39:39.925
because they like to operate at a more
695
00:39:39.925 --> 00:39:42.245
or less constant output level, the
696
00:39:42.245 --> 00:39:44.685
what is usually called base load mode of operation.
697
00:39:45.265 --> 00:39:47.965
But more important, coming back to the question
698
00:39:47.965 --> 00:39:51.525
of economics, is that when you operate a nuclear plant in
699
00:39:51.525 --> 00:39:53.685
that kind of fashion where the output goes up
700
00:39:53.685 --> 00:39:57.005
and down, you are necessarily generating less than the
701
00:39:57.005 --> 00:39:59.725
maximum amount of power that you'll be producing.
702
00:40:00.145 --> 00:40:03.565
So the cost that you have spent on the reactor would have
703
00:40:03.565 --> 00:40:07.445
to be recouped over fewer kilowatt hours of electricity.
704
00:40:07.445 --> 00:40:10.125
In other words, the cost per unit is going to go up.
705
00:40:11.215 --> 00:40:13.525
Every utility in the United States
706
00:40:13.795 --> 00:40:16.645
that owns a nuclear plant also owns fossil fuel
707
00:40:16.645 --> 00:40:17.725
assets, right?
708
00:40:17.785 --> 00:40:21.245
It could be coal, it could be oil, it could be natural gas,
709
00:40:21.545 --> 00:40:23.445
or some combination of all of them, right?
710
00:40:23.985 --> 00:40:26.845
All of them don't want to see very rapid climate action
711
00:40:26.845 --> 00:40:28.125
because then that would mean they have
712
00:40:28.125 --> 00:40:31.005
to shut down a whole bunch of fossil fuel plants, right?
713
00:40:31.025 --> 00:40:32.405
So they want to pretend
714
00:40:32.405 --> 00:40:34.165
that they're interested in solving the problem
715
00:40:34.815 --> 00:40:38.645
while also maintaining their current sources of wealth.
716
00:40:39.975 --> 00:40:43.125
Let's see how bright the future can be when cleaner safer
717
00:40:43.265 --> 00:40:47.365
energy is available to all new scale power
718
00:40:47.385 --> 00:40:49.965
to the world power for all humankind.
719
00:40:56.915 --> 00:41:00.005
Climate change is the problem of problems.
720
00:41:00.065 --> 00:41:02.405
And again, here, nuclear power could be a
721
00:41:02.555 --> 00:41:04.085
plausible way forward.
722
00:41:04.435 --> 00:41:06.605
Nuclear power is getting smaller, safer,
723
00:41:06.785 --> 00:41:10.165
and more energy efficient by the day, which only strengthens
724
00:41:10.165 --> 00:41:12.085
what I think is now a very reasonable
725
00:41:12.365 --> 00:41:13.485
argument that you should consider.
726
00:41:13.865 --> 00:41:15.845
The world needs more nuclear power
727
00:41:15.945 --> 00:41:17.925
and it needs it right now.
728
00:41:18.075 --> 00:41:19.685
Today's video was made in conjunction
729
00:41:19.755 --> 00:41:22.125
with the United States Department of Energy
730
00:41:22.465 --> 00:41:24.285
and Idaho National Laboratory,
731
00:41:24.635 --> 00:41:26.405
Talking to America
732
00:41:26.545 --> 00:41:27.685
and literally talking
733
00:41:27.705 --> 00:41:31.325
to the world about why the nuclear industry is
734
00:41:31.325 --> 00:41:32.605
so important to our future.
735
00:41:33.035 --> 00:41:34.805
They're looking for huge amounts
736
00:41:34.805 --> 00:41:36.005
of support from the government
737
00:41:36.265 --> 00:41:38.965
and that requires a huge amount of propaganda to people
738
00:41:39.385 --> 00:41:41.165
to try and call their congressmen
739
00:41:41.165 --> 00:41:44.325
and say, why aren't you funding this new beautiful solution
740
00:41:44.345 --> 00:41:45.605
to our climate crisis?
741
00:41:46.025 --> 00:41:48.245
And then hope that all these people in Washington are going
742
00:41:48.245 --> 00:41:51.765
to get the, uh, funding that they want.
743
00:41:52.285 --> 00:41:54.565
I think that the SMR push
744
00:41:54.785 --> 00:41:58.525
and more largely the push for nuclear power as a solution
745
00:41:58.525 --> 00:42:00.685
to climate change, uh, is going
746
00:42:00.685 --> 00:42:02.565
to get us the worst of both worlds.
747
00:42:02.565 --> 00:42:04.365
It's not going to solve climate change
748
00:42:04.955 --> 00:42:06.805
when these things are going to be deployed.
749
00:42:07.155 --> 00:42:09.125
Some of them will have accidents, all
750
00:42:09.125 --> 00:42:11.645
of them will produce waste, which have to be dealt with.
751
00:42:11.835 --> 00:42:13.205
Some of them could contribute
752
00:42:13.205 --> 00:42:14.805
to nuclear weapons proliferation,
753
00:42:15.465 --> 00:42:17.725
and we've be spending a huge amount of money
754
00:42:17.725 --> 00:42:19.125
that could have been spent on other things.
755
00:42:19.675 --> 00:42:22.085
It's a lose lose proposition, as it were.
756
00:42:23.205 --> 00:42:26.145
The Columbia River is often referred to as a workhorse.
757
00:42:26.415 --> 00:42:29.825
This river is one that has been transformed
758
00:42:30.525 --> 00:42:35.335
in the last century into the generator
759
00:42:35.595 --> 00:42:38.015
of energy for the Pacific Northwest.
760
00:42:38.395 --> 00:42:42.935
And at the same time, it has stolen from
761
00:42:42.995 --> 00:42:46.615
so many people from tribal governments, the rights to,
762
00:42:47.475 --> 00:42:50.135
you know, catch salmon, steelhead, the rights
763
00:42:50.135 --> 00:42:51.895
that were promised by the US government.
764
00:42:52.715 --> 00:42:56.815
The whole emphasis on nuclear power becomes a distraction.
765
00:42:57.085 --> 00:43:00.175
There's an opportunity cost in wasting this money,
766
00:43:00.275 --> 00:43:02.135
in wasting all these very intelligent people,
767
00:43:02.725 --> 00:43:04.895
wasting their energy and their talents.
768
00:43:04.895 --> 00:43:07.615
Essentially, we just have to reduce the emissions.
769
00:43:07.615 --> 00:43:09.415
And the second is we need to do it really fast
770
00:43:09.415 --> 00:43:12.215
because the timeline that the IPCC
771
00:43:12.275 --> 00:43:16.215
and other, uh, scientists tell us is very soon, right?
772
00:43:16.215 --> 00:43:18.735
They want to reduce it by 50% by 2030
773
00:43:19.155 --> 00:43:21.615
and essentially bring it down to zero by 2050.
774
00:43:21.965 --> 00:43:23.335
There's almost no chance
775
00:43:23.335 --> 00:43:24.935
that small modular reactors are going
776
00:43:24.935 --> 00:43:27.375
to contribute anything in this timeframe.
777
00:43:27.635 --> 00:43:30.415
And in fact, the fact that you're spending, uh, money
778
00:43:30.555 --> 00:43:32.455
and time on that means
779
00:43:32.455 --> 00:43:34.815
that you're actually setting back the clock on
780
00:43:34.815 --> 00:43:36.015
trying to reduce emissions.
781
00:43:36.635 --> 00:43:39.095
We have to change the system fundamentally by the system.
782
00:43:39.255 --> 00:43:42.455
I mean our social systems, our economic systems,
783
00:43:43.115 --> 00:43:45.575
the way we produce things, the way we move around,
784
00:43:45.875 --> 00:43:47.855
the way we get our food, all
785
00:43:47.855 --> 00:43:49.335
of those things are going to contribute.
786
00:43:49.595 --> 00:43:50.855
And that's a very big problem.
787
00:43:51.435 --> 00:43:55.175
And in a way, people kind of latch onto straws,
788
00:43:55.175 --> 00:43:57.735
which tell them that, you know, just use this technology
789
00:43:57.755 --> 00:44:00.175
and magically just replace all your coal plants
790
00:44:00.175 --> 00:44:01.695
with nuclear plants and all your
791
00:44:01.695 --> 00:44:02.815
problems are going to go away.
792
00:44:02.955 --> 00:44:06.175
And of course, for people who are in positions of power,
793
00:44:06.315 --> 00:44:08.935
who are disproportionately benefiting from the current
794
00:44:08.935 --> 00:44:11.295
system, the economic system, the political system,
795
00:44:11.725 --> 00:44:13.815
that is a great message to be sending out
796
00:44:13.815 --> 00:44:16.775
because then their privilege is not challenged in any way,
797
00:44:19.205 --> 00:44:24.015
Emergency, emergency.
798
00:44:24.845 --> 00:44:27.935
It's a very thin green line that we're standing on,
799
00:44:28.555 --> 00:44:30.815
and we in the Northwest understand that.
800
00:44:31.945 --> 00:44:35.925
And if we don't continue to rise up against
801
00:44:36.815 --> 00:44:40.845
false solutions that our government is almost
802
00:44:41.955 --> 00:44:44.445
codifying into law that this is the way it should be,
803
00:44:45.275 --> 00:44:47.005
then we don't have that any hope.
804
00:44:48.225 --> 00:44:52.965
And I'm gonna stick with the hope that we can rise up
805
00:44:53.385 --> 00:44:57.485
and that every seed we plant is
806
00:44:58.005 --> 00:45:01.325
a green seed towards the future for our children's children
807
00:45:01.475 --> 00:45:03.805
because they will be still dealing with part
808
00:45:03.805 --> 00:45:04.885
of this legacy when we're gone.
